PDA

View Full Version : The Old "What Car" Question



Swervin_Mervin
25-04-2006, 11:12
I fancy a change, but it probably won't happen so this is all hypothetical.

What to get? Requirements are as follows:

1: RWD. I fancy a new challenge and don't think any other fwd car would meet that after having the valver. Nothing is a huge step on, so that mean RWD as I couldn't give 2 hoots abour 4WD.

2: Must be relatively "different". Thing I ilke about the valver in std form is the obscurity and sticking with something that many people prefer to change a bit.

3: Must be bloody reliable and able to withstand trackday hoonery without throwing a wobbler. This probably rules out most things french, but then they aren't reknowned for their RWD cars anyway.

4: Must be available for under £7.5k, £10k absolute limit.

5: Nothing with a shitty blue oval badge on the front. :wink:

clowo16v
25-04-2006, 11:16
Mk3 Capri 2.8i special with a Cosworth 24v V6 or a Cossie YB turbo in and decent suspension. You should be able to get one for £3-5k and it'll handle well, they look mint and birds love em lol

Matt

Swervin_Mervin
25-04-2006, 11:18
Updated list of requirements :wink:

Clio b
25-04-2006, 11:22
Dont know how many requirements it fits... but get an Evo! They are amazing... also gorgeous... what more could you want! :D

GazTwo
25-04-2006, 11:26
E30

Swervin_Mervin
25-04-2006, 11:46
Evos are 4WD Cliob and I imagine a touch pricey to run.

2 live
25-04-2006, 11:46
dont forget rule no.5 mate.............break it at ur peril. lol


lotus sumbeam

skoda estelle , lancia twin cam powered

r1 powered fiat 126


list is endless tbh

GazTwo
25-04-2006, 11:50
As above northy is selling his Skoda and also has a Lancia Twin Cam sat in the garage....have a word... :wink:

Swervin_Mervin
25-04-2006, 11:52
C'mon, I siad reliable. Whilst the skoda could be I wouldn't trust a bloody italian HG as far as I could throw it. :wink:

Zollo
25-04-2006, 11:58
944 Turbo
E36 M3 Coupe (3-litre I reckon)
E30 M3
S14 200SX

Sure you don't want a Williams? You can have mine?!

Swervin_Mervin
25-04-2006, 11:59
Euww. You typed those dirty 3 characters that spell E36. :lol:

Clio b
25-04-2006, 12:01
Sure you don't want a Williams? You can have mine?!

Yeah french is really reliable!!!! Not!!!

Zollo
25-04-2006, 12:04
Nowt wrong with an E36 once they've had a few mods! Or how about...

S1 Elise
350Z (wait for prices to drop a bit more!)
VX220
MR2 Roadster (and suffer the piss-taking of the blinkered!)

I would say E34 M5, R32 GTR and Supra TT, but I reckon you'll say they're a bit big :wink:

2 live
25-04-2006, 12:04
depends tbh.


my last 2 french cars have been 100% more reliable than me last 2 german cars.......total of 2 years in german tanks ended in 2 rendered german tanks lol...they jus dont like gettin hammered do they lol.take the ball home n sulk

Swervin_Mervin
25-04-2006, 12:07
Did look at VXs matt, but reckon I'd want the turbo which pushes the price up.

968 is still calling me, but they're right at the top end of the budget if not beyond.

Zollo
25-04-2006, 12:11
Did look at VXs matt, but reckon I'd want the turbo which pushes the price up.

968 is still calling me, but they're right at the top end of the budget if not beyond.

N/A 2.2 is better for the track I reckon. I'm sure I've read somewhere that the suspension is slightly softer for the Turbo. And also, I was speaking to a guy who was tracking a Turbo at Castle Combe and he reckoned the lag and throttle response makes the car very difficult to drive fast on track. Plus the 2.2 looks better!

Swervin_Mervin
25-04-2006, 12:15
OK. Still not that "unknown" though are they?

What I want is to be able to turn up in something no one else has, something that if people do see they'll write off as being no competition, but knowing that it is well capable.

Basically what I have in the valver but a rwd car. I loved the fact on Sat that the 205s, Elises, Scoobs really weren't expecting a Valver to give them a hard time.

Zollo
25-04-2006, 12:22
Maybe an old E28 Beemer then? How about an Alpina B9? Very unasumming to look at but still great fun and, in the right hands, very quick.

Trouble is, though, all the well-known cars are the good ones. That's why everyone has them! If there's something that's not very common, there's usually a good reason for it!

Zollo
25-04-2006, 12:28
One of these...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1983-BMW-ALPINA-B9-3-5-Polaris-silver_W0QQitemZ4634340017QQcategoryZ9837QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

Or these...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Datsun-240z_W0QQitemZ4634459267QQcategoryZ18238QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or these...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1990-E30-BMW-325i-TOURING-325-ESTATE-MANUAL-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ4633950057QQcategoryZ9837QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And spend a lot modifying them!

Or this. Probably, I reckon, your best bet...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1991-PORSCHE-944-TURBO_W0QQitemZ4633650819QQcategoryZ9860QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Purple
25-04-2006, 12:29
Toyota AE86. Probably not cheap for a tricked-out GT version.

Lancer 2000 turbo. Can't get more stealth than this. But not too sure about service and support though.

fasterthanjesus
25-04-2006, 12:37
caterham super 7. you know it makes sense. will just squeeze into the 10k bracket (for a good un). rwd, and is a pure ride.

seanofnp
25-04-2006, 12:41
Supra or a 200sx S14

clowo16v
25-04-2006, 13:51
Whats wrong with Fords my dads XR4x4 twin turbo didn't have any problems all the time he had it unlike his 21 turbo and the Sierra would (and still does) pan a Evo 6 Tommy Mac.

Matt

Swervin_Mervin
25-04-2006, 13:58
Fords are shit, that's what. Apart from certain ones like mk1 scorts, but I could still never own anything with that badge.

It's some totally unexplained hatred I have for them.

bill.
25-04-2006, 14:30
5: Nothing with a shitty blue oval badge on the front. :wink:[/quote]

cant help you much on the Which Car? But good fooking choice about staying well clear of the blue oval badge, unless you have money to burn of course!

bill.
25-04-2006, 14:32
to add to my last post, i had a nice valver for about 5/6 years, sold it bought a 2wd sapphitre cossie, lost £7500 in less than one and a half years, and did about 1500 miles in that time, needless to say i am now looking for a williams!

NUFF SAID!

big hp
25-04-2006, 17:07
to add to my last post, i had a nice valver for about 5/6 years, sold it bought a 2wd sapphitre cossie, lost £7500 in less than one and a half years, and did about 1500 miles in that time, needless to say i am now looking for a williams!

NUFF SAID!

I'm seriously thinking about selling my williams to buy a Cossie, I know people who have owned or still got them and never had any issues with them.

Know lots about them as before Renaults I was a bit of a ford freak. Still think ford fair is the best event of the year, no argument.

Swervin_Mervin
25-04-2006, 17:11
TBH the list is basically looking like

E30 M3
Porker 968 sport or club sport
E30 320IS if I ever see one for sale
Caterfield of some sort
Renault A610 (if I'm feeling particularly stupid)

ash clio gtt
25-04-2006, 18:00
some other options

renault 5 turbo 2 (mates just got one cost 14k but it is unbelieveable)

s13 200sx with rb25det engine (i was looking into doing this at one point can be done for 5k all in then could get a nice 350-400bhp for less than 10k total including the cars)

after seeing and hearing my mates new turbo 2 if i had anywhere near the money i would get one at the drop of a hat 8)

clowo16v
25-04-2006, 19:33
I'd still go with a Ford I know loads of people who've run them for years with no problems and most are tuned quite a lot. They're the easiest cars to work on ever, bits are cheaper than any other make and theres loads of 2nd hand bits knocking about.

Matt

malbon
25-04-2006, 19:37
m roadster. not sure if they're under 10 but they're a bit lairy. 911 fast

Martin
25-04-2006, 19:48
hmmm S2000's are out of your budget but nice, S14 200sx, Mr2 turbo, AE86 would be my choice! 8)

http://www.neweraimports.com/carDetails.jsp?carId=207#pictures

richy
25-04-2006, 21:31
I'm seriously thinking about selling my williams to buy a Cossie, I know people who have owned or still got them and never had any issues with them.

Know lots about them as before Renaults I was a bit of a ford freak. Still think ford fair is the best event of the year, no argument.

id love a escort cossie!! just cant afford one, i do like the sierra cossie too, but think saphire cos is abit commen! lol

and ford fair was very good last year, so much so ive got tracktime this year in my williams :wink:


oh mike, id look at a E30 BMW 325, imo thats better option, a M3 would be great but not sure about costs of running one, insurence etc to!! but if u can afford a M3 E30 then defiantly or a saphire 2wd cossie :wink:

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 10:08
hmmm S2000's are out of your budget but nice, S14 200sx, Mr2 turbo, AE86 would be my choice! 8)

http://www.neweraimports.com/carDetails.jsp?carId=207#pictures

For some reason I'd prefer N/A power as well. S2000 is appealing to me but I can't decide if they make the drive look a bit gay or not.

Zollo
26-04-2006, 10:27
You have PM mate 8)

P.S S2000 is a viscous snappy little bastard apparently!

2 live
26-04-2006, 10:34
i hear dale winton has just bought one to boost his GAY image

Zollo
26-04-2006, 11:01
I have an idea, but you (and most others) won't like it!

1. It's RWD. And a very, very good handler too.
2. It's not different in the outside world, but at a track day no one will expect much from it at all. Don't think I've even seen one at a track day, in fact.
3. It's pretty new and is German, so should stand up well to abuse.
4. You can get one for 10 grand.
5. It definately isn't Ford.

It's also pretty damn nippy, sounds lovely and drives very nicely.

Drum roll please... E46 330ci :oops:

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 11:02
You can really get them for that?
:shock:

Would prefer something a bit more old skool/hardcore.

J o n
26-04-2006, 11:04
by 330ci you mean the club sport in the blue colour? they are awesome cars, my mates got one and it's not all that fast, but it handles and also allows for some real wheel heroics!

my choice for that price however would be an early S2000 Honda, you can pick them up fairly cheap now.

Zollo
26-04-2006, 11:11
Yeah Mike, they start at about £9,500 for a 60k 2000. I know what you mean by not being hardcore enough, but...try and find a poverty spec one without all the leccy toys on, take a few bits and peices out of the interior (back seats, etc) and throw an aftermarket exhaust on - Job done :D

Jesus - Nah, 330Ci is just a normal Coupe. Club Sport was a marketing gimmick. Just a Sport with fancy cosmetic bits. As you say though, still absolutely great cars.

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 11:15
Only thing that would concern me about a modern 3 is the running costs. Shit like tyres cost a fair bit don't they? Mind you at £2-300 a month on a valver it can't be worse. :P

Zollo
26-04-2006, 11:20
Tyres won't be any more than S2000 or 968 ones I wouldn't have thought.

Worth a test drive in one I reckon :twisted:

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 11:22
I'm actually liking your thinking on this one. I was once mauled, and I mean mauled, by a 330CI. Must've been manual as all the others I've had a dabble with haven't been much quicker.

I'm thinking dark grey (titanium) with the rear seats out and poverty spec could be v. cool and a bit different.

Purple
26-04-2006, 11:23
I have an idea, but you (and most others) won't like it!
Drum roll please... E46 330ci :oops:
Boo! Hiss! Not even if I am 65. BMW not making cars anymore - they are making computers.

Zollo
26-04-2006, 11:31
I have an idea, but you (and most others) won't like it!
Drum roll please... E46 330ci :oops:
Boo! Hiss! Not even if I am 65. BMW not making cars anymore - they are making computers.

Have you driven an E46 Purple?! Very well sorted cars. The E46 was the last of the true old-school Beemers anyway. Bangle hadn't had his wicked way for a start!

J o n
26-04-2006, 11:33
Matt, dont the club sports have better suspension on them? they seem stiffer sprung to me... could just be differing wear I suppose though, the mileage's were all different on the ones I went to look at with my mate, the club sport being the best overall... they do look amazing, even better than the E46 M3 dare I say it! :o

Mike, they aint all that quick really, but they are so smooth and nice to drive, just a great all round car. Tyres on the rear will be the biggest worry, I think they are 18's and 255 or 265 wide :shock: ... big ****ers anyway!

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 11:35
TBH though I'd only get a 2nd set of wheels with cheapo tyres on anyway for destroying at trackdays. No point killing good rubber.

J o n
26-04-2006, 11:45
TBH though I'd only get a 2nd set of wheels with cheapo tyres on anyway for destroying at trackdays. No point killing good rubber.

dont understand that... surely you'd want better tyres if your driving the car hard? It's the first point of contact keeping you on the road afterall... makes a huge difference...

Zollo
26-04-2006, 11:45
Matt, dont the club sports have better suspension on them? they seem stiffer sprung to me... could just be differing wear I suppose though, the mileage's were all different on the ones I went to look at with my mate, the club sport being the best overall... they do look amazing, even better than the E46 M3 dare I say it! :o

Mike, they aint all that quick really, but they are so smooth and nice to drive, just a great all round car. Tyres on the rear will be the biggest worry, I think they are 18's and 255 or 265 wide :shock: ... big f**k**s anyway!

I think the CS just had the M-tech Sport gear on it. So more firmly sprung and damped than a normal Ci, yeah. And it had the 18s of the Sport too. 255/35/18 on the back :shock:

Purple
26-04-2006, 11:50
Have you driven an E46 Purple?! Very well sorted cars. The E46 was the last of the true old-school Beemers anyway. Bangle hadn't had his wicked way for a start!
The E36 is where I stopped being a fan. They just kept making them smoother (performance/handling wise) after that. E30s and 02s are more my cup of tea. But you know I am very big on old skool driving anyway.

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 11:50
TBH though I'd only get a 2nd set of wheels with cheapo tyres on anyway for destroying at trackdays. No point killing good rubber.

dont understand that... surely you'd want better tyres if your driving the car hard? It's the first point of contact keeping you on the road afterall... makes a huge difference...

I actually reckon tyres like P6000s are better tbh John. Whilst turd on the road, track temps allow them to work much better and because they're so able to soak up the heat they don't fall apart as quickly. The firestone's I had on at Elvington had plenty of grip yet barely looked touched at the end of the day.

J o n
26-04-2006, 11:57
Zollo - thought it felt a bit different... thing is it's still a smooth nice ride whatever surfaces your on... very nice cars... and can be had for £15-17k for semi-low mile models!

Mike, know what you mean on the whole shredding tyres thing, but the PE2's were just unreal on track I thought, so much grip!

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 12:01
Oh I agree John. More grip....'til you overheat them and they start to crumble. Happened to FMs PE2s at Haynes and even my F1s. They're much softer compund you see.

malbon
26-04-2006, 13:05
S2k is ok but nothing special. Pace outside the VTEC is distinctly normal - like not even GTi pace. If you like caning the nuts out of an engine then its fine but for me i felt it was way too bogged down below 6k.

Tyres should last around 8-10k on the road - I had hardwearing continentals so maybe a few less - never took it on track.

As Zollo says 330Ci is a good choice and not far off M pace.

J o n
26-04-2006, 13:09
not far off M pace :shock: you sure about that? lol

malbon
26-04-2006, 13:15
erm yes.

I use a 330ci with m suspension that sits in our company pool sometimes. And a friend has an E46 M3. Yes its quicker but Yes you can keep up in the 330. Its not light years.

Its like the S2k. If I told people I could easily keep up and on the right road get a length or 2 ahead of the S2k in the williams people wouldn't believe me. Until you've actually driven them then you wouldn't actually know reading the stats.

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 13:16
Just been told by a proper BM nut that he only rates them as good.

Still like the idea though.

malbon
26-04-2006, 13:19
oh they're not brilliant and i wouldn't buy one :D but its a choice.

Its hard when you set a budget cos you just want to break it :lol:

If I was to buy a beemer then it would only be the breadvan or the M roadster both with Schitzer wheels. The first one being a fantastic drive, the second nice but with some scuttle shake that you sacrifice for tops off :wink:

J o n
26-04-2006, 13:22
erm yes.

I use a 330ci with m suspension that sits in our company pool sometimes. And a friend has an E46 M3. Yes its quicker but Yes you can keep up in the 330. Its not light years.

Its like the S2k. If I told people I could easily keep up and on the right road get a length or 2 ahead of the S2k in the williams people wouldn't believe me. Until you've actually driven them then you wouldn't actually know reading the stats.

no, I know what your saying, I'm just surprised and somewhat shocked by it, as I frequently beast my pals 330 Club Sport on the way home from work, as he's a good mate and lives only round the corner, but when I had a do with the E36 3.0 M3 I got absolutely and utterly anhialated 3rd gear on :shock:

Zollo
26-04-2006, 13:23
Best thing to do is actually have a drive in one. Only way you'll really know if it's right for you.

How about a mint E30 325i Sport, or an Alpina or Hartge E30?

J o n
26-04-2006, 13:25
or Mehd's E30 M3... that's got to be the mintest one you could ever hope to find

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 13:25
Dunno. The idea of having something that many will think of as the usual 330 but doing a few tasteful mods sounds like a plan. Probably cost me in depreciation though doing that.

J o n
26-04-2006, 13:28
330's are nice, but I'd not use it to track, it's too nice a car imo. I certainly wont be taking my M3 anywhere near a track when I find it.

malbon
26-04-2006, 13:29
erm yes.

I use a 330ci with m suspension that sits in our company pool sometimes. And a friend has an E46 M3. Yes its quicker but Yes you can keep up in the 330. Its not light years.

Its like the S2k. If I told people I could easily keep up and on the right road get a length or 2 ahead of the S2k in the williams people wouldn't believe me. Until you've actually driven them then you wouldn't actually know reading the stats.

no, I know what your saying, I'm just surprised and somewhat shocked by it, as I frequently beast my pals 330 Club Sport on the way home from work, as he's a good mate and lives only round the corner, but when I had a do with the E36 3.0 M3 I got absolutely and utterly anhialated 3rd gear on :shock:

Its all about the driver :wink: I'd compare it to maybe a valver vs 182. Some may say a 182 would trounce it. Depends on what your idea of trouncing is really. Either way there are faster cars than both of them that can be had for the money. Its not what they do though its how they do it :lol:

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 13:33
But what about the risk to value if you start modding one. I know it's only a matter of time before people do start modding them and using them for trackdays but if I did it I'd be one of the first ones and taking a risk surely?

I have no qualms about tracking one though. No car is too nice to get a thraping in my opinion. :twisted:

malbon
26-04-2006, 13:34
yeah, the BM's are too big and heavy to track really. Thats why the track E46 M3s all have uprated brakes cos they get cooked after a few laps :lol:

Much more fun in an E30 - a proper non-heavyweight rwd'er for road and track.

J o n
26-04-2006, 13:36
erm yes.

I use a 330ci with m suspension that sits in our company pool sometimes. And a friend has an E46 M3. Yes its quicker but Yes you can keep up in the 330. Its not light years.

Its like the S2k. If I told people I could easily keep up and on the right road get a length or 2 ahead of the S2k in the williams people wouldn't believe me. Until you've actually driven them then you wouldn't actually know reading the stats.

no, I know what your saying, I'm just surprised and somewhat shocked by it, as I frequently beast my pals 330 Club Sport on the way home from work, as he's a good mate and lives only round the corner, but when I had a do with the E36 3.0 M3 I got absolutely and utterly anhialated 3rd gear on :shock:

Its all about the driver :wink: I'd compare it to maybe a valver vs 182. Some may say a 182 would trounce it. Depends on what your idea of trouncing is really. Either way there are faster cars than both of them that can be had for the money. Its not what they do though its how they do it :lol:

lol, he knows how to drive fast... you ever been in car with a jamaican? he redlines it pretty much everywhere and I'll pull away from him comfortably in every gear at a constant rate... my pals CTR before he sold it was just as quick and they are both standard, but Khany's E36 M3 blew me away... it deffo is down to the driver like you say, you should get your mate to let you lose in his E46 M3

dannyt
26-04-2006, 19:35
Mike what about a Mercedes 190 2.3/2.5 16v cosworth, rear wheel drive, similar league to the E30 and cheap to pick up?

Also what about an old M5?

Danny

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 20:08
TBH Danny I've never been a fan of the 190. Old M5 appeals as well but I can't decide if I'd want someting that big.

See that's teh trouble with the E46. Not nimble enough?

steveos_16valver
26-04-2006, 21:07
theres only 1 car and its a mazda :)


rx7 twin turbo :) nice challange :)

Swervin_Mervin
26-04-2006, 21:13
I know of someone that's just having their bi-annial £2k rebuild on one of those. :wink:

dannyt
27-04-2006, 07:05
how often do you need to rebuild one?

J o n
27-04-2006, 08:37
how often do you need to rebuild one?

every other time you drive it iirc... expensive, but cool as ****

2 live
27-04-2006, 08:41
but if its for track abuse.the m5s are way too big and slow imo...remember the comment at donny jesus??



'wots that fukkin huge thing?look at size of that!!............no way....m5'