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bill.
05-04-2006, 16:33
First off hi everyone, here's my story, i used to have a stripped out valver, with around the 160bhp mark, then 50bhp of nos, so it wasn't shy, it did a 15.3 at santa pod, with just zorst, de-cat, and a chip, took it round silverstone etc, awesome car, best car i've ever had, just sometimes it used to lack a bit of grunt like when going up against my mates 205 mi16 (standard), mine without the nos, now we were expecting this to be a very close race, but to be fair it pulled away from me no problem at all, left me pretty much standing! :shock:

So i decided to sell the clio (worst thing i ever did :( ) and buy a 420bhp 2wd sapphire cossie (2nd worst thing i ever did :( ) the cossie has cost me about 5k in the one and a half years, and i have done around 1000 miles in it, (mostly running it in, to only go bang again, after it melted a piston on me) don't get me wrong it was QUICK, but a bag of shit! So i have just sold it with engine problems, and am now looking for a new car.

I have decided to get a williams 3 in the very near future, with mods hopefully. :D

So basically my question is..

What kind of mods would you think a williams would need to see off the 205 mi16??

How will a modded williams compare to my mates 205 mi16( by the way it is now in the middle of getting carbs on it, so probably around the 175bhp mark), he has already smoked a williams, (could have been standard, not sure?) do williams make good improvements from there modifications, as i dont want to be left behind again in his tyre smoke!

Is a williams really that much quicker than a decent valver?

cheers and convince me, look forwards to your replys!

bill.
05-04-2006, 16:34
my old valver ^^^^^^^^

Swervin_Mervin
05-04-2006, 16:38
Compo MOs? Lovely stuff.

bill.
05-04-2006, 16:41
cheers, no they where stil auto speedlines, if i remember correctly, only ever saw one other car with them on, and that was in a magazine

Martin
05-04-2006, 16:43
Welcome over fella, your from blackburn way are'nt you? tbh I've never had a doo with a mi16 but I bet on mine or another quick willaims/hybrid beating one tbh. Has your mate run his up the 1/4? I thought they were around 14.5/6 pace which to be fair would smoke a valver.....

Chris n`nic
05-04-2006, 16:44
Hey bill...hows it going m8y. I would imagine a williams with minor mods would be a decent battle for a Mi16...the prob is that there are quick and slow willies as there are the same for the Pugs. I remember a guy at York had one that was tuned to the balls (Mi16) I beat him every time. He asked what I was paying for my car and he said he was paying about the same just keeping his on the road lol.

Chris

bill.
05-04-2006, 16:47
Welcome over fella, your from blackburn way are'nt you? tbh I've never had a doo with a mi16 but I bet on mine or another quick willaims/hybrid beating one tbh. Has your mate run his up the 1/4? I thought they were around 14.5/6 pace which to be fair would smoke a valver.....

cheers, yeah i'm from blackburn, do you reckonise the car or something? what mods/bhp has yours got? he got 15.1 at york, with it being standard, although i got 15.3, on the road it pulled on me no problem.

bill.
05-04-2006, 16:52
Hey bill...hows it going m8y. I would imagine a williams with minor mods would be a decent battle for a Mi16...the prob is that there are quick and slow willies as there are the same for the Pugs. I remember a guy at York had one that was tuned to the balls (Mi16) I beat him every time. He asked what I was paying for my car and he said he was paying about the same just keeping his on the road lol.

Chris

sound mate, you? well i will be once i get another sorted clio, yours is a fast cup isn't it? you bumped into that astra turbo lately? ( its even faster now, so be warned ) so i take it they tune up well then the willys?.

Martin
05-04-2006, 16:53
know you off cs fella....used to be Martin.

Anyway..15.1 is pretty poo tbh I thought they were quicker! As chris says though you get good and bad willys....if you get a good un your away. Mine did 14.4 with breathing mods & chip , 2lives & Winstons are/were similar mid 14s with minimal mods.

TriO`
05-04-2006, 16:54
Welcome to the site fella

like your old valver :). didn't it have a twin centerd exhaust?


15.3 1/4 seems a bit slow for 160 bhp, was the engine knackared atall ?

Martin
05-04-2006, 16:56
valver 160 bhp and williams 160 bhp is two different things imo The torque makes the difference!

bill.
05-04-2006, 16:56
mid 14's seems good for just breathing mods, yeah remember you off cs, you local?

bill.
05-04-2006, 16:59
yeah mine was the one with the twin exit center exhaust, i got 15.3 before the cams and the gearbox ratio's where altered and full interior, never got chance to run it up the strip at its best.

Martin
05-04-2006, 17:04
I from Blackpool/Preston way fella....

Anyway in answer to your question I think you may need a chipwizard re-map with some cams to be sure of dispatching a mi16. Or you could just be a tightwad like me and strip the fooker down to the shell and do it that way lol

bill.
05-04-2006, 17:04
So are we saying a cammed up willy, with the usual breathing mods should see off this pug?

bill.
05-04-2006, 17:08
ha ha, nice one notorious, trying to avoid going down the stripped out route this time ( although it was good at times ) time to get searching for mint willy soon then

thanks for your replys and keep your thoughts coming!

Martin
05-04-2006, 17:08
It depends on whether you get a good un or a bad un really ...... Andy off here has done a 14.9 with only a de-cat which is pretty damn good, Northy done a 14.8 with zorst & manifold that would be enough to see off a 15.1 mi16....but if you wanna spank him then yeah I'd go for cams & chipwizard map that should see a low 14 sec car.

bill.
05-04-2006, 17:15
i wanna SPANK HIM ideally :roll: :oops: , so i'll be going for as good a spec as i can afford, with the intention of further mods

clowo16v
05-04-2006, 17:37
I ran quicker than a 15.3 in my Clio with it just stripped out. I've had a doo with a Mi16 205 before and there was nothing in it till we got to some bends then I caned him.

See ya

Matt

bill.
05-04-2006, 17:49
got a feeling his pug is a quick un, can't wait for it to come out of the garage with the carbs on!

Coops
05-04-2006, 17:59
talk to martin as u already have bout loosing weight then bighp for engine work, his is a minter now pushing 170 atf with minimal mods tbh! so put em together n what'll u got?! 14 dead easy! 8)

Zollo
05-04-2006, 18:04
Sounds like his is a quick 'un...although the 1/4 mile time isn't that great. But that depends on loads of things.

You should be alright with a cam'd/mapped Williams though :twisted:

JonnyK
05-04-2006, 19:00
i am selling my hybrid VERY soon ;) 175bhp

2 live
05-04-2006, 19:43
alrite fella .welcome to the site


tbh..id expect the willy in std trim to be there or there abouts with the mi16. like chris...iv raced a couple at york etc..and tbh..they werent very impressive.

mine with just zorst mods ran 14.6......cams and chip put it down to 14.0......but there was a quicker time in it........hopin for low 13s poss hi 12s later this year.but to get that will cost some coin.

kj16v
05-04-2006, 20:00
i wanna SPANK HIM ideally :roll: :oops: , so i'll be going for as good a spec as i can afford, with the intention of further mods

Hi. It all depends on what you can afford. How much do you want to spend?

Purple
06-04-2006, 01:15
Not familiar with the mi16 engine but isn't that like a pug engine on illegal steriods? I think stripped, better breathing and RR remap would make it a fair fight. Then add throttle-body and/or cams (plus RR remap) if you really need to get your message across. :)

Martin
06-04-2006, 01:24
it's the 1.9 16v engine used in the 405mi16 (strangely lol), stnd 155 bhp....should be rapid in a light 205 but does'nt seem to add up in some cars...

FlamingMonkey
06-04-2006, 01:24
My Willy 3 with Exhaust and Decat saw off an MI16 Pug 205 easily especially 3rd gear onwards, I know the guy was driving as it was Gaz and he was test driving the Pug :P

Martin
06-04-2006, 01:25
Well if Gaz was driving that explains it he makes the nana look like a milk float! :wink: :lol:

FlamingMonkey
06-04-2006, 01:31
A decent Willy will see off a Valver with ease and the Pug

I had a Valver, thought the Willy was not a massive gap, I drove the Willy and was converted.

Your in Blackburn dude, meet up with me and Chris, you can take my modded Willy 3 for a spin if you like, you will notice the difference. Like I say though mine is modded, but you will get the idea

POWARTEK
06-04-2006, 02:10
TBh, I think there isnt much in it betwen the Valver & willy, where the valver looses out is midrange but gets it on top end.

2 live
06-04-2006, 08:06
lol^^^^^^^^^^^^


they are leagues apart really.the valver seems to run out of steam fairly early ...on the clocks.....the willy jus keeps pullin

Gav
06-04-2006, 08:25
lol^^^^^^^^^^^^


they are leagues apart really.the valver seems to run out of steam fairly early ...on the clocks.....the willy jus keeps pullin

wouldnt go that far, the valver still pulls well in top revs in 5th so its got some power

but i agree the williams n valver aint close in comparison, williams is alot better for speed, handling etc

but valver is still great on speed n handling also...so i wouldnt say there leagues apart really

2 live
06-04-2006, 08:45
my old valver started to lose its breath at about 120.....took a fukkin age to get up to 135....the willy.....seems to have a bit of a flat spot in 5th til it hits 130ish then it starts to fly....

my old valver ran 15.9s, it def wasnt a slow un lol....but judging by the comparisons iv had with other quick valvers.....again...there leagues apart. from 2nd gear upwards they history usually.


now im not sayingg the valver is slow..not by any means.they are a very capable quick car, and very under estimated...but compare em to a willy....u cant lol.

bill.
06-04-2006, 08:46
2 live- nice quarter mile times, what mods you planning for low 13's, high 12's, throttle boddies?

flamingmonkey- cheers for your offer, might just take you up on that, in the near future if you dont mind.(plus i've got a traders policy)

I'm gonna have in the region of 4k to spend, so hopefully i will be able to get a nice willy 3 with mods.

This pug does fair shift, had a tussle with a 225 tt on the motorway and came out on top upto speeds of 120mph.

2 live
06-04-2006, 09:07
yes mate will need bodies really for those times.or turbo.or the easy way out ..nos ;)

Daz.
06-04-2006, 10:16
Another Blackburn Scally!!! :twisted:

I'm hopefully getting a willy soon so ask him to meet me and you can watch the results :wink:

J o n
06-04-2006, 13:12
TBh, I think there isnt much in it betwen the Valver & willy, where the valver looses out is midrange but gets it on top end.

lol, dont be ridiculous, have you ever put the two up side by side on the road in standard trim, both running right? the difference from 3rd gear is pretty damn huge. race to the limiter from standstill and by the time the willy is on the limiter the valver wont even be in the rear view. mine as standard would rip my mates to bits from 3rd gear as standard, his was a quickun too...

Bill, I'll prolly be getting rid of mine in a month or two... just need to find my next car first... it's cammed etc...

bill.
06-04-2006, 14:52
yes mate will need bodies really for those times.or turbo.or the easy way out ..nos ;)

had nos on my valver mate, 25bhp jets (didn't notice much) then 50bhp jets (massive differance)

bill.
06-04-2006, 14:53
Another Blackburn Scally!!! :twisted:

I'm hopefully getting a willy soon so ask him to meet me and you can watch the results :wink:

just let me know when

bill.
06-04-2006, 14:58
[quote=POWARTEK]TBh, I think there isnt much in it betwen the Valver & willy, where the valver looses out is midrange but gets it on top end.

lol, dont be ridiculous, have you ever put the two up side by side on the road in standard trim, both running right? the difference from 3rd gear is pretty damn huge. race to the limiter from standstill and by the time the willy is on the limiter the valver wont even be in the rear view. mine as standard would rip my mates to bits from 3rd gear as standard, his was a quickun too...

Bill, I'll prolly be getting rid of mine in a month or two... just need to find my next car first... it's cammed etc...[/quote

got any details mate, spec,milage etc, conditiion, got my heart set on a williams 3 to be honest though, but you never know?
thats good to hear about the difference between the willy and the valver, getting rid of my doubts quickly now

cheers

Andyvalver
06-04-2006, 15:51
Up to 70-80 mph there is nowt in it between a willy and valver imo.

There is about half a second difference on the 1/4 mile between the two cars. Half a second gap at 80-90 miles per hour is what? A car length tops?

bill.
06-04-2006, 15:55
i reckon a valver v's williams day at the pod should be sorted,lol

Martin
06-04-2006, 16:22
Up to 70-80 mph there is nowt in it between a willy and valver imo.

There is about half a second difference on the 1/4 mile between the two cars. Half a second gap at 80-90 miles per hour is what? A car length tops?

I'd back mine to beat a similar spec 1.8 (stripped to ****, exhuast etc) by a second up the strip.... 14.0 to 15.0 or thereabouts...

JonnyK
06-04-2006, 18:25
2 live- nice quarter mile times, what mods you planning for low 13's, high 12's, throttle boddies?

flamingmonkey- cheers for your offer, might just take you up on that, in the near future if you dont mind.(plus i've got a traders policy)

I'm gonna have in the region of 4k to spend, so hopefully i will be able to get a nice willy 3 with mods.

This pug does fair shift, had a tussle with a 225 tt on the motorway and came out on top upto speeds of 120mph.

buy my modded hybrid for 4k! has alot of mods 8)

MAXIBOY
06-04-2006, 20:38
can i bring my valver

Martin
06-04-2006, 20:45
no

Martin
06-04-2006, 20:46
:lol: why not

kj16v
06-04-2006, 20:50
Bill - 4k?! you rich...! anyway with that amount to spend its gotta be TB's lairy cam (like 300 deg. or something), and flowed, big-valve head
OR

Throw your credit card at BB tuning and say "I'll have your finest turbo cinversion, my good man".

Either = V.fast + unhappy pug.

bill.
06-04-2006, 22:30
Bill - 4k?! you rich...! anyway with that amount to spend its gotta be TB's lairy cam (like 300 deg. or something), and flowed, big-valve head
OR

Throw your credit card at BB tuning and say "I'll have your finest turbo cinversion, my good man".

Either = V.fast + unhappy pug.

by 4k mate , i mean to buy a car, not to have 4k to modify it, i'd take tb's over a turbo conversion any day

stan
07-04-2006, 01:35
i can sort you out with a nice t.b set up....

as for comparing the willy to 205 Mi16....hmmm i reckon pretty much even stevens as standard. willy would have the edge handling wise imo

im building an ally Mi16 lump at the mo, on bike carbs, to go in a 205. will be an intresting comparison against my hybrid :twisted: (the clio will piss on it lol)

POWARTEK
07-04-2006, 01:48
TBh, I think there isnt much in it betwen the Valver & willy, where the valver looses out is midrange but gets it on top end.

lol, dont be ridiculous, have you ever put the two up side by side on the road in standard trim, both running right? the difference from 3rd gear is pretty damn huge. race to the limiter from standstill and by the time the willy is on the limiter the valver wont even be in the rear view. mine as standard would rip my mates to bits from 3rd gear as standard, his was a quickun too...

Bill, I'll prolly be getting rid of mine in a month or two... just need to find my next car first... it's cammed etc...


from 3rd gear isnt this midrange?????????
The 16V would still be in the rear view mirror, you have clearly not raced a good/similar specced 16V.

2 live
07-04-2006, 08:04
lol..iv raced plenty of quick valvers...all with same outcome.

there are a few that can tram on quite well, mainly down to driver than the car tho.....but they still end up holdin u back.


as martin says.....theres more like a second diff between the 2 rather than 1/2.

kj16v
07-04-2006, 21:10
by 4k mate , i mean to buy a car, not to have 4k to modify it, i'd take tb's over a turbo conversion any day

Oh, right :? In that case, Willy, zhorst, chip, filter, your round at the pub.

edde
08-04-2006, 00:11
Bill - 4k?! you rich...! anyway with that amount to spend its gotta be TB's lairy cam (like 300 deg. or something), and flowed, big-valve head
OR

Throw your credit card at BB tuning and say "I'll have your finest turbo cinversion, my good man".

Either = V.fast + unhappy pug.

by 4k mate , i mean to buy a car, not to have 4k to modify it, i'd take tb's over a turbo conversion any day
You could buy my Williams for well under £4k spend even more tunning it (throttle bodies and refesh bottome end for even more power)

J o n
08-04-2006, 10:41
TBh, I think there isnt much in it betwen the Valver & willy, where the valver looses out is midrange but gets it on top end.

lol, dont be ridiculous, have you ever put the two up side by side on the road in standard trim, both running right? the difference from 3rd gear is pretty damn huge. race to the limiter from standstill and by the time the willy is on the limiter the valver wont even be in the rear view. mine as standard would rip my mates to bits from 3rd gear as standard, his was a quickun too...

Bill, I'll prolly be getting rid of mine in a month or two... just need to find my next car first... it's cammed etc...


from 3rd gear isnt this midrange?????????
The 16V would still be in the rear view mirror, you have clearly not raced a good/similar specced 16V.

As stated above... tell ya what, I'll meet up and quite happily pan your valver into the middle of next week and you can see for yourself. I've had a valver and driven enough of them and raced enough of them to know.

Andyvalver
08-04-2006, 11:22
The way you lot make it sound is like the willy would be off into the distance. A valver would still be in your rear view mirror after a 100 but losing ground slowly. At say a 100 it would be maybe 2-3 cars lengths behind.

matt uk
08-04-2006, 12:09
well i've got both sat outside at this point in time, both standard and cant say the differance is massive! not like what some people make out.

id say andys right on the statement prior to this one.

bill.
08-04-2006, 12:43
by 4k mate , i mean to buy a car, not to have 4k to modify it, i'd take tb's over a turbo conversion any day

Oh, right :? In that case, Willy, zhorst, chip, filter, your round at the pub.

half a pint ok? lol

Dancliovalver
08-04-2006, 12:56
i must say on the valver VS williams debate, sorry to go off topic again

ive raced me mate in his nearly standard williams all it has was a de-cat and chip, and some of you know my car

first and second gear, absolutly nothing in it, i was probably a bonnet in front but third gear he started pulling on me then passed me

the only reason i cought him up in 4th was coz ive got cams and a 7.7k limiter

his is a very wierd car, seems to be very quick for the mods hes got but he definatly blew me away in third gear!!!

Dancliovalver
08-04-2006, 13:01
im building an ally Mi16 lump at the mo, on bike carbs, to go in a 205. will be an intresting comparison against my hybrid :twisted: (the clio will piss on it lol)

mate thats gonna be awsome

send us some pics when its finished :D

J o n
08-04-2006, 16:22
anytime I've seen a valver go up against a Williams it's been the same story, not much in it to 60, then the momentum shifts at 70 and by the end of third it's a good couple of car lengths, by end of 4th 5-6+ cars, 5th gear... gone. I've done this many a time with my pals valvers, and there's enough where I live to have a few comparisons. Usual test roads have some dips and slight up hill bits depending on which way you hit them from and if it's going even slightly up hill the difference is another car length plus per gear. Think people should stop comparing tuned cars as standard too, it makes a fair bit of difference to the outcome, especially where chips are involved.

bill.
11-04-2006, 14:35
Well i drove the 205mi16 117 miles last night back from geeting it set up on the rollers, its completley standard apart from an exhaust system and the carbs, and it produced......................184BHP, so my mate is well chuffed with it, and i must say it goes like fook!

I will look forward to some driving tales from him, and live in hope that when i get a williams it will cane his ass!